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Brian_Farn

6 posts since
Apr 8, 2009

Jun 12, 2009 7:00 AM

Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

Hi. Those of us at IBM who are committed to bringing you the latest RPG programming tools such as the ones in RDi, are continually searching for new ways to improve your productivity and competitiveness. One of the tools that we have always been proud of is VisualAge for RPG. Due to our priorities in bringing you an integrated set of tools, such as Remote Systems Explorer, Application Diagram, Screen Designer and a full line of source editors, VisualAge for RPG was unable to be given as much attention as some of its users have asked for. We would like to request your help in defining a direction for VisualAge for RPG.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with VisualAge for RPG, here is a quick overview. VisualAge for RPG allows RPG programmers to create applications that run on a desktop operating system, while accessing an IBM i back end. VisualAge for RPG introduced three concepts to RPG programmers.

The first concept is a graphical user interface. A design tool allows RPG programmers to assemble an application's graphical user interface without having to write any user interface code. User interface 'parts' are dragged from a palette onto a design area. The user interface definition is saved in a workstation file. At runtime, the application's user interface is automatically created from the user interface definition contained in the file. VisualAge for RPG has over forty types of parts, including common parts such as Checkbox, Image, Menu Item and Window, as well as more familiar ones, such as Subfile and Message Subfile, and utility parts such as Timer.

The user interface definition that is stored in a workstation file is portable across operating systems. This portability has allowed us to provide runtimes for OS/2, various Windows platforms, as well as Java Swing and Java applets capable of running in a web browser. As operating systems became available, VisualAge for RPG has provided runtimes to match, without requiring changes to the application's RPG code.

The second concept is event driven programming which is a common feature of other modern programming languages. In order to facilitate this concept, action subroutines were added to RPG. These subroutines are called when a user interface event, such as a button press,or subfile record selection occurs. At design time, RPG programmers decide which of their action subroutines are called when a user interface event occurs.

The third concept is that of reusable components where a component is defined as a pairing of a user interface definition and its associated RPG code. When an application starts, a user interface is created from a component's user interface definition, and the component's associated RPG code is executed whenever user interface events occur. An additional opcode allows an RPG programmer to load a second component from within the starting component. When this happens, the second component's user interface is created from its user interface definition and added to the application's user interface, and the second component's associated RPG code is executed whenever user interface events occur in the second component's user interface. Any component may be an application's starting component, and any component may load another component as a sub-component.

VisualAge for RPG continues to be used for a wide variety of applications. Some of these rich client applications consist of multiple reusable components with very complex user interfaces. Those of us who develop tools for your use, would like to hear from you. We desire to attain a better feel for the number of users of VisualAge for RPG, and applications that are currently deployed. We would also like to hear your ideas about the direction we should take VisualAge for RPG. Should we provide the ability for your existing applications to run on other platforms such as Linux, and the newest netbooks? Perhaps your applications could be purchased and downloaded from a web site, and could update themselves when you made a new update available. As usual, we appreciate the time that you spend in helping define the future direction of any of our products. Thanks ahead to those who contribute input to a possible future for VisualAge for RPG by replying to this post.

Tags: visualage_for_rpg, rpg, rdi

Krusador

1 posts since
Jun 15, 2009

1. Jun 15, 2009 1:42 PM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

I've only use VA RPG sparingly, so I'm not a power user by any means. But, would it be possible to just make the language syntax a plug-in to Microsoft's Visual Studio? Or is this not possible because of the way VA RPG handles the GUI elements?

Bob Cagle

GrahamArnold

7 posts since
Jun 16, 2009

2. Jun 16, 2009 10:10 AM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

Brian,

I will almost certainly return to this thread and make further posts as I think further and fully about where I want VARPG to go, and in response to response from other developers and yourselves.

I have used VARPG for approximately 8 years, and RPG generally for approaching 30 years. I am joint Managing Director of Pacific Solutions Ltd, based in the UK, and we've been supplying Document Management and Workflow systems for the iSeries (AS/400) for around 20 years. Specifically we've used VARPG for our CaseView Work Management system "CaseView", for which the development investment was significant. The software has now been in use with a major UK insurance company for a number of years, and remains a crucial part of their claims handling. For us, and them, continuity of support is paramount. I have despaired in recent years at the lack of interest and commitment from IBM with regard to VARPG, so I welcome the statement you make, even if I'm somewhat sceptical. I would strongly recommend at least casting your eyes down the VARPG Newsgroup Forum that Claus Weiss put a post on, to pick up a few remaining names of people valiantly posting, and email them directly. I have to say I purely chance on this as I only occasionally have a look at the Newsgroup to see if there is some response from IBM. I am thankful that at last there is.

There are many thoughts for future direction, however my first and foremost consideration is to provide support to customers using VARPG code developed by us, so AT LEAST a statement of support for the product would be welcome.

Regards

Graham

JLowe

4 posts since
Jun 16, 2009

3. Jun 16, 2009 4:55 PM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

I am probably one of the VARPG power users. I have developed many applications, some very complex, using VARPG. These are production apps in use today, and are very well-received by the end users. I have even developed commercial stand-alone applications that don't even use the AS400 at all. It's a pretty good windows development tool even without using all the killer AS400 stuff.

My biggest concern is if there is a future for VARPG, and the complete lack of communication from IBM about this subject has made many of us wonder if continuing to develop applications with VARPG is wise. So the first thing we need is a statement or commitment (if possible) from IBM saying VARPG has a future. It almost seems like that's what you're implying above. Can we take it as such?

The VARPG tool is great for delivering GUI front ends to your AS400 data. The learning curve is slight for those who know RPG. The functionality to the AS400 exceeds all other GUI tools on the market today including .net which I currently work in.

This tool COULD have been the AS400 GUI Tool that AS400 shops have been asking for since 1985. If only IBM had bothered to market it instead of hiding it in that bloated WDSC monster. And they haven't kept it up with Windows. Point: the 'build' button in the GUI Designer still says '95' - a reference to Windows 95!!!! Why would anyone think this tool has a future when IBM has ignored it since Win95?

The Java applet thing is a joke. Half of the parts and opcodes don't work in Java, and the applets you CAN generate are pretty much useless. It's a great concept, but IBM didn't even try to make this work. We need full-featured web apps, not crippled applets.

Deploying apps with VARPG is sweet. I put my apps in a folder on the IFS. I pre-install 1 app on the end user machine. Actually just an icon that points to the IFS. This is my menu app, and it calls all the other apps. Any changes I make to any app, I just install it to the IFS and users immediately get the new version. Try that in .net!!!! I can provide instructions on how to set this up if anyone needs it. Deployment is a dream.

How about adding the ability to generate a class object that can be consumed by .net applications?

VARPG has so much potential. With a little modernizing to give it a more up to date look and feel, add some new functionality so it can play with the .net framework, maybe add the ability to generate a 'full' web solution, this would be a world-class tool.

-Jesse Lowe

Hell, just get that friggin' "95" off the build button, and I'd feel better.

rick_at_work

6 posts since
Jan 26, 2009

4. Jun 16, 2009 4:59 PM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

Brian,

Thank you for your post regarding bringing VisualAge for RPG back to life!

The manufacturing company I work for has several applications and we recently started to discuss what to do now that IBM had apparently stopped enhancing/supporting VARPG. Of course, we had not seen a formal announcement, just a lack of commitment. Imagine the surprise that it isn't really true? FYI - I also teach RPG and DB2 classes and found college students really liked creating graphical apps and more quickly learned RPG using this toolset - but, they hate the green screen and they love the browser!

Since the time when Claus Weiss first visited our facility to teach us VARPG on OS/2, we were enthused about the capability to give the "i" and RPG a GUI. I still feel this is necessary. I am convinced that most users and ISVs would feel the best place to view and interact with that resulting GUI is a web browser. I would hope that IBM could give users a choice of delivery in a browser (not Applets please) vs a "thick" client.

As far as the future for development, it might be nice to have an open source version of the toolset on Linux and Developers might appreciate that.

I would hope that the development environment would be modernized and imagine the ability to develop RPG and VisualAge for RPG as part of RDi in the Eclipse toolset, using the familiar LPEX editor. Designing the GUI in that environment should allow both design and limited testing/viewing without requirement to execute the RPG code, thereby speeding up the interface design. Deployment of the application graphically for execution in a web browser with Web 2.0 widgets would be very sweet, I think. Perhaps given this scenario, the most popular platform for execution would be the Web Browser. You need to continue to be able to import DDS and create a "panel" with all the typical GUI widgets.

Some may say IBM has already delivered this with EGL? Not exactly, but maybe there are synergies with the EGL development team that could be leveraged? At one point I was convinced that the support path for VARPG would be to simply migrate to from RPG to EGL. But after experimenting with EGL, I am not sure this is the way. Is it even possible - to read RPG Code and create EGL. Would people even want that? I've used both and for a customer/ISV that has invested heavily in modern, functional RPG applications, they probably want you simply to support he existing product with enhancements and modern interfaces.

You will certainly provoke a lot of thought among the VisualAge for RPG community. Please keep us up to date on the direction for this product.

Jm.Gigandet

2 posts since
Jun 17, 2009

5. Jun 17, 2009 2:10 AM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

Hi,

I'm still using VA RPG. But the fact is, there's no much support today.

http://www-949.ibm.com/software/rational/cafe/images/emoticons/shocked.gif

What's missing in actual VA RPG ? What would I like ?

DB access...
Native access is not that easy. Pointing to the right file in the correct library is not always that simple.
Embedded SQL ! We never have been able to make it work (and Chenghui Li did help me...). Installing/deploying is pretty heavy. We use embedded OPNQRYF technique, we don't like it, but this works. Please find a way to make embedded SQL works as it does on the i Server, easyly.

This tool should be able to use the correct OS interface (seems you need a brand new compiler). On XP (don't use Vista in our company...) every window, every button, etc... does not look as it should. Users immediatly think, they're using an old program.

IDE...
As in VB for example, a way to group/explore (from the code editor, not from the GUI designer) routines for a control. To find them today, I need to open the GUI designer (then right click on the control). It should be possible in Code Editor.

Language...
Of course, upgrade the language with new bifs.

Edit :
In DB access, I should add, that we face severe performance issues when connecting through a VPN. Improvements on speed would be greatly appreciated !

caltmann

1 posts since
Jun 17, 2009

6. Jun 17, 2009 3:26 AM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

There's not much to add to the replies already posted.
Our main concern is the "old" look and feel of the GUI
and many component-properties aren't able to be
set progammatically, only at design-time
(border-settings, some alignments,..).
A lot of components don't even have the option of changing
some of their basic properties (f.e. the real color of a rectangle)
Furthermore, we really miss some integration-enhancements.
Having to DDE into word-files IS stone-age!
What about ActiveX/COM/.NET?

bye
Chris

huegli

1 posts since
Jun 17, 2009

7. Jun 17, 2009 3:29 AM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

Hi Brian

I used to start programming with VARPG a few years ago and used it for about 2 years very intensively to develop GUI-interfaces to the iSeries and to write a kind of our own programming language. Due to other projects i had to stop working on it, but we have made quite a lot of applications we use daily and our users like to use them. We still intend to continue our big project in near future. But in the last years it was very quite about VARPG and we wonderd, if VARPG ist still alive and if we should go on developing with VARPG. I would like it, if IBM could make a statement that VARPG is supported and enhanced in the future.

I like VARPG since it is very eays to develop a GUI-Interface to the iSeries. But i like it too, that i am able to use the same syntax as on the iseries. I used to post problems and wishes in the VARPG-Newsgroup. I think overlooking the posts there could give you some good ideas, what we would like to have in VARPG. I wonder, why implementing SQL-Statements is so complicated. I would like to have the same easy way as in native programs. And i would like it, if the development environment would be integrated in the wdsc.

In other words, yes, i would like to go on with VARPG !

Greetings
Rolf

WilliamC

2 posts since
Jun 17, 2009

8. Jun 17, 2009 4:04 AM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

Hi Brian,

I am very happy with this higher view of VARPG ....

is that 12 years working in RPG but only for a year now that I use VARPG, so my experience is rather limited ...

We have a management RPG and management Java ... our goal currently is to make more easily available on our management by RPG VARPG ... just have to say that I was somewhat skeptical about what the product because in my opinion lacks a certain documentary support, especially for someone like me who is a beginner ... so this new forum can only make myself happy ... I have special requests, I think there should be more detailed examples for more complex functions such as the reference component or the use of shell, or recall to excel.

Regards

William

BobOstro

2 posts since
Jun 17, 2009

9. Jun 17, 2009 7:13 AM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

WOW!! I thought that IBM had completely given up on VARPG and were not going to support it any more. Even the VARPG Newgroup (although still there) seems to have lost all of its members. j

I am definitely not a power user but have a couple gui apps that are used on our production floor touchscreen computers and office computers.

We here at Trainor Glass Company are in the process of making the move to ASP.net and Visual Studio. I would LOVE to see the RPG incorporated into Visual Studio and be able to work in the .Net arena. We looked in to ASNA, but their product could not handle the column level security on database files our .Net guys want to use. So everything is being done in C# and java script with some AJAX thrown in. If it was possible to do web applications using RPG in Visual Studio we'd make great strides here. The learning curve for RPG developers is pretty big for the jump into the C# world. I've taken several C# classes at a community college here and I am still blown away by the code the C# developers are writing.

As for the version 6.0 of VARPG that I'm using (is there a version after that? I'm not sure), the GUI designer can use some overhauling (i.e. the "Build 95" button as mentioned in another post). Also, the parts can use some upgrading to have a more modern look and feel.

But anyway... Brian, thanks for bringing this to light. I'm really happy to hear that IBM is moving forward with VARPG!! Its great news!

BobOstro

2 posts since
Jun 17, 2009

10. Jun 17, 2009 7:39 AM

in response to: JLowe

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

You mentioned in your post about how to set up VARPG deployment in the IFS. I'm interested in this in a big way. I have 8 touch computers on our shop floor. If I make a change to the application, I have to reinstall it on all 8 machines. At least that's not a whole ton of computers and it usually only take about 40 minuts or so, but doing it once sounds much better!

M_F

16 posts since
Jan 16, 2009

11. Jun 17, 2009 8:34 AM

in response to: GrahamArnold

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

As already stated in many others post the first and most important thing we need is an official statement about IBM commitment on VARPG future.

Thanks in advance for any follow-up.

Marco

JLowe

4 posts since
Jun 16, 2009

12. Jun 17, 2009 9:08 AM

in response to: BobOstro

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

How to set up VARPG apps to run from a server

In this (real life) example, I am using the IFS as my server. My VARPG program is named PGM01.

1. Create a folder on the IFS called VRPGAPPS.
2. Create a folder within VRPGAPPS called PGM01.
3. Create another folder in VRPGAPPS called PGM01_lan.
4. Map a drive to VRPGAPPS on the IFS. Let's use R:\ for this example.
5. From Dev machine, use Application Packaging program to package PGM01 into VRPGAPPS\PGM01.
6. Using the mapped drive via My Computer, go into R:\VRPGAPPS\PGM01 and double click on SETUP.EXE.
7. This runs the install program. Accept all default parameters, but change the install directory to be R:\VRPGAPPS\PGM01_lan.
8. Go to the user machine. Do the remaining steps from the user machine.
9. Map a drive to R:\VRPGAPPS. Check the ‘reconnect' option.
10. Using the mapped drive via My Computer, go into R:\VRPGAPPS\PGM01 and double click on SETUP.EXE.
11. This runs the install program. Accept all default parameters, except change the Setup Type to be COMPACT.

This completes the setup. If you make changes the program, do steps 5-7 only. No need to touch the user machines.

Hope this helps!

Attachments:

How to set up VARPG apps to run from a server.docx (11.3 K)

omfb

1 posts since
Jun 17, 2009

13. Jun 17, 2009 10:33 AM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

^{As already stated on other posts we need to know if IBM has any forecast on Visual Age for RPG.}

^{Will it be developed in further updated versions?}
^ I use Visual Age for RPG since 2002 with satisfaction both on my side and on users' side.^

^{Waiting for good news,}
^{Thank you very much}

^Pierluigi

BoothMartin

2 posts since
Jun 17, 2009

14. Jun 17, 2009 12:41 PM

in response to: Brian_Farn

Re: Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

I used VARPG and loved it. It solved problems for users that are still hard to solve today in any other ways.

Users loved the interface.

Applications were delivered more quickly than with any othe gui method that I have seen.

I would still be using VARPG today if I could figure out a way to make a living with VARPG.

I hesitate to offer suggestions - you guys know your options better than I. If you can find a way for me to make a living with VARPG I will gladly go back to it!

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Jun 12, 2009 7:00 AM

Your Help in Defining The Direction of VisualAge for RPG

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